American Alchemy with Jesse Michels ·Oct 7, 2026 ·1h 55m

I Confront The Secretary of Energy On UFOs

Evaluation and Summary

3.9/10

Jesse Michels interviews John S. Herrington, Reagan's Secretary of Energy (1985–1989), who oversaw America's nuclear weapons complex during the Cold War. The episode promises a confrontation about UFOs but delivers a sprawling, tangential conversation spanning Cold War history, nuclear policy, and UFO speculation. Herrington discusses his Reagan administration experience: the F-117 stealth fighter hidden in the budget, the Strategic Defense Initiative and Edward Teller's "Excalibur" nuclear-powered space laser, and the Superconducting Super Collider. On UFOs, Herrington validates the Navy's UAP videos as real but dismisses a Reagan-era alien story as "total B.S." and challenges UFO whistleblowers like David Grusch to produce hard evidence. The episode also features Brent Friedman, who claims Herrington told him a UFO story in 1981 at the Greenbrier bunker—a claim Herrington denies on air, creating an awkward confrontational moment. The conversation then meanders through tangents: Reagan's 1974 UFO sighting, the Battle of Los Angeles, deepfakes, parapsychology, cold fusion, PROMIS software, the CIA's Hollywood liaison, seafloor recovery theories, and a closing discussion of DOE Roswell hazing rituals as consciousness-initiation ceremonies. Timestamps show 47 distinct topic shifts across 115 minutes. The episode contains two sponsor reads (ZocDoc, Qualia) and heavy promotion of American Alchemy merchandise and related projects. Herrington's insider perspective on Cold War nuclear policy is genuinely valuable, but the UFO material relies heavily on speculation, anecdote, and unverified claims rather than evidence. The promised "confrontation" on UFOs is brief and unresolved. The episode conflates legitimate Cold War history with fringe UFO theories without clear demarcation, and the sheer number of tangents—from parapsychology to submarines to hazing rituals—suggests padding rather than focused investigation. Listeners seeking rigorous analysis of either Cold War policy or UFO evidence will find the episode scattered; those interested in conspiracy-adjacent speculation and insider gossip may find it entertaining.

Verdict: A rambling conversation with a genuine Cold War insider that promises UFO confrontation but delivers scattered speculation, tangents, and unresolved claims padded across nearly two hours.

Technology rubric

Technical accuracy 3/5 20%

Herrington's Cold War history (F-117, SDI, Super Collider) appears credible; UFO claims lack verification and mix speculation with anecdote without clear sourcing.
Insight beyond the headlines 3/5 20%

Genuine insider perspective on Reagan cabinet and nuclear policy, but UFO discussion mostly rehashes existing whistleblower claims and conspiracy theories without original analysis.
Clarity for non-experts 3/5 15%

Herrington explains Cold War programs accessibly, but rapid topic-switching and unexplained references (Excalibur, Ubatuba, Lacatski) create confusion; UFO material assumes familiarity with recent disclosure debates.
Substance 2/5 15%

47 topic shifts across 115 minutes; many tangents (parapsychology, deepfakes, hazing rituals) feel disconnected; core UFO confrontation is brief and unresolved; heavy sponsor reads and self-promotion padding.
Delivers on its title 2/5 15%

Title promises confrontation on UFOs; actual UFO discussion is scattered across the episode, mostly Herrington dismissing claims rather than engaging substantively; majority of content is Cold War history and tangents.
Value for time 2/5 15%

Nearly 2 hours with frequent topic shifts, sponsor reads, and tangential discussions (consciousness, hazing rituals, parapsychology) that dilute focus; could be tightened significantly without losing core content.

How we score Technology

Worth it if you're interested in Reagan-era nuclear policy anecdotes and enjoy conspiracy-adjacent UFO speculation, but not if you want rigorous analysis or a focused investigation.

Content flags

Ad-heavy Two sponsor reads (ZocDoc, Qualia) plus extensive self-promotion of merchandise, magazine, clips channel, and job board across show notes; approximately 10+ minutes of promotional content in a 115-minute episode.

#cold war #ufo #reagan #nuclear policy #conspiracy

Based on the episode description. AI-generated; it can be wrong.

Show notes

Our American Alchemist this week is John S. Herrington, Ronald Reagan's Secretary of Energy, who ran America's nuclear weapons complex at the height of the Cold War. --------------------- You can support American Alchemy by signing up with our incredible sponsors below! ZocDoc: Head to https://zocdoc.com/jessemichels and check that appointment off your to-do list. Qualia: Curious about creatine? Go to https://qualialife.com/JESSE to get 50% off and save an extra 15% with the code JESSE. Grab Your American Alchemy Merchandise Here! https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ --------------------- John joined Reagan as a volunteer advance man in the 1960s. He later served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, head of White House personnel, and Secretary of Energy from 1985 to 1989. In this episode, John takes us inside Reagan's cabinet: the stealth fighter he found hidden in his own budget, the Strategic Defense Initiative and Edward Teller's nuclear-powered space laser, Reagan's "throw deep" approval of the Superconducting Super Collider, and the secret Taiwanese nuclear weapons program the U.S. shut down. He also takes on the UFO question. He says the Navy's UAP videos are real, but calls a Reagan-era alien story "total B.S." and challenges David Grusch and others to show hard evidence. Watch Brent Friedman’s podcast here: https://soundlightfrequency.com/ Learn more about the Reagan legacy John helped preserve as a founding board member of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, and read Reagan, In His Own Hand , the collection John says proves Reagan wrote his own words - https://www.reaganfoundation.org/ Follow the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reaganfoundation Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RonaldReagan X: https://x.com/ronaldreagan YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/reaganfoundation --------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@jessemichelsclips Apply For Jobs ➤ https://jobs.gusto.com/boards/american-alchemy-3758eda5-237b-45f1-b043-da80a300714e Sponsor Inquiries ➤ sponsor@jessemichelsmedia.com Media Inquiries ➤ media@jessemichelsmedia.com --------------------- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Introduction 1:28 - Brent Friedman's Story 4:26 - Interview Preview 6:28 - Sponsors (Zocdoc) 8:14 - Meeting Ronald Reagan 10:11 - Reagan and SDI Opposition 11:21 - Reagan's Diaries and Speeches 13:02 - Strategic Defense Initiative Explained 15:48 - Edward Teller and Excalibur 17:33 - Green Fireballs Document 18:47 - UFOs, Navy Videos and Faith 21:28 - Herrington Denies Brent's Story 24:49 - The Greenbrier Bunker 27:26 - Brent Friedman Responds 29:43 - The 1981 Veranda Conversation 33:04 - Underground Facilities in West Virginia 35:13 - Polygraph and Money Questions 36:12 - Why Brent Went Public 39:01 - David Grusch 41:36 - The Politico Journalist 44:32 - UFOs at Nuclear Sites 46:09 - Harald Malmgren's UFO Debris 49:06 - A Secret Budget Item 49:23 - Sponsors (Qualia) 50:59 - F-117 and Skunk Works 52:30 - UFOs as Spy Plane Cover 53:15 - Oak Ridge Document 53:53 - Garry Nolan's Ubatuba Sample 56:57 - Reagan's 1974 UFO Sighting 58:26 - Otherworldly or Man-Made 59:23 - Battle of Los Angeles and Secrecy 1:00:34 - AI and Deepfakes 1:01:26 - Stratton, Lacatski and Lazar 1:03:31 - UFOs at Pantex and Fukushima 1:05:07 - Bobby Ray Inman 1:06:06 - UFOs and the Ocean Floor 1:07:26 - CIA's Hollywood Liaison 1:09:00 - Limits on Elected Leaders 1:10:32 - Exotic Propulsion and Submarines 1:11:28 - Nuclear Airplanes and Project Orion 1:12:43 - Nuclear Tests and Roswell 1:13:37 - The Question of Evidence 1:15:37 - Palomar Observatory Transients 1:17:13 - Parapsychology and Precognition 1:18:30 - Trump and Disclosure 1:20:25 - Cold Fusion 1:21:26 - Spies at the Energy Department 1:22:38 - PROMIS Software and Bill Richardson 1:24:09 - Genesis Mission and Underfunded Programs 1:25:57 - Public Fear of Nuclear Power 1:27:10 - SAIC and Bobby Ray Inman 1:29:01 - High-Energy Physics and UFOs 1:31:01 - Marco Rubio on UAP 1:32:54 - Atomic Energy Act and Rickover 1:35:13 - Seafloor Recovery and Puthoff's Hypothesis 1:37:55 - The CIA, Gaffney and Casey 1:40:17 - Closing and Reagan Keepsakes 1:42:45 - Brent on the Hazing Theory 1:44:18 - DOE Roswell Hazing Ritual 1:47:43 - Consciousness and Initiation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices